I also want safari support!
In this post from Business Logs, Mike Rundle points something very clear: Either support Safari, or lose customers. He's sooo clear that makes me feel like wearing shades.
There is more than one example of website which does not work with safari; some days ago I pointed GAP as an example of shop banning Safari users, some months ago I found myself unable to buy a ticket in easyjet because they redesigned the site and now you can't select a date with safari - which is absolutely stupid… I would accept to not to have some super propietary aesthetic filter which just works on IE, but … not having a working date dropdown box? that's plainly an idiot's idea.
And, as somebody says in the comments for that blog, the mac users base is increasing and I don't think that the growth it's going to stop in a near future.
So, stop optimizing your site for IE.
Start thinking standard.
humphr3y
20051214
Bueno, como en su dia no optimizaron los webs para ibrowser o voyager… no tengo mas que decir que hasta que no saquen safari para pc, le pueden dar bastante… el que no vea el web bien en safari, tiene el firefox.
He dicho! :D
eurocero
20051214
It's fair to say that easyJet fixed this "mistake" a while ago.
sole
20051215
humphrey: an online shop DOES NOT need to be optimized for a given browser. People which installs firefox (as the article says) tends to be tech savvy, and that's a very very small amount of people compared to the number of people which will use simply the default system browser - which is Safari starting with Mac OS X Tiger.
The point is: are you going to lose a 10% of your possible clients because the stupid idea of "there's just a little amount of people using macs around"? Or are you going to be open and user friendly and allow anyone -even people with a PDA browser- to buy in your shop?
.
eurocero: ahh good to know! as they even didn't reply my bug report mail I thought they had ignored it so far, and I kept buying with firefox :)
humphr3y
20051215
Yes, an online shop does not need nothing… but if the online shop of Zara (we?), probably will be made in flash, and there is no problems with the browser.
Y ahora en español, pq sino, no me explico bien. O sea… resulta que el tio se queja, que firefox es que lo usa poca gente porque no es el "navegador del sistema"… coño!!… y que es explorer y todo dios esta contra el ahora mismo?… no es el puto navegador de sistema de windows?… pq personalmente me gusta tanto explorer como firefox, y me jode bastante el tema de las webs con la pestaña superior diciendo "ehhh… sabes qeu existe firefox y que bloquea tus popups, te lava el coche, te plancha y cocina gratis?… pontelo, ponselo!"… me pierdo…
Si estoy dispuesto a perder el 10% de los clientes?… se lleva haciendo lustros con el netscape y los navegadores para mac, asi que creo que si, estan dispuestos (es más, estoy dispuesto).
Apoyo la idea de que firefox es un navegador mejor y más coherente con las reglas establecidas, y apoyo que haya 2 navegadores en competencia mayoritaria (explorer, firefox) ya que es bueno para todos. Pero que haya más navegadores… no es que yo no quiera, es que la gente en general pasa (y está demostrado)
Asi que, me temo que como no hagan una versión windows de safari… o la gente tire todas sus peceras a la basura y se compren un mac, safari se acabará convirtiendo en otro navegador minoritario, al que no se le hará ni puto caso, como ya ha ocurrido tantas otras veces (con explorer para mac, sin ir mas lejos - aunque es normal, es nefasto -).
humphr3y
20051215
lo cual me recuerda que acaban de sacar versiones optimizadas de firefox 1.5 para G4 y G5 de mac…
sole
20051215
but who buys in zara online?
that's more of a catalog than a real shop… usually you want to try the clothes before buying them, specially with zara and their changing sizes (a L can be smaller than a M)
.
and do not confuse things: safari is an updated browser, which is in continuous development, while ie is completely outdated, patched in the best case, to avoid lots of virus and so on enter in your system through a Big Door.
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The solution is not to decide whether you want to support only firefox, or ie, or your own customized version of mozilla; what you need to do is to code with STANDARDS and not to do hacks to allow sites to continue working with obsolete and outdated browsers.
It's not a question of aesthetic issues which will make a browser render a box 1 pixel to the left, is a question of functionality and usability.
humphr3y
20051215
zara was only an example… put nike if you want
safari is an updated browser in continuous development like explorer or firefox, cause i think that patch a bug or fix a virus entry is made because somebody still updating the code (aunque sea a ratos)
an outdated browser could be today only the explorer version of mac. The rest of browsers are in working. But develop a browser is not a answer to use more the browser (for example netscape, opera…)
and the question of functionality and usability… please, my brain don't support more shit of mr.Nielsen…
sole
20051215
for god's sake, how can you say that explorer 6 is in continuous development?
its rendering code is as outdated now as it was in 2002. meanwhile safari is acid compliant, and firefox is working hard on it. I don't know about opera but i presume they are doing also a good job.
Using a browser which is being developed is an answer when you don't want to waste money optimizing for something which is ABANDONED, as it is ie6. Because of thinking "IE6", there are thousands of sites which stops lots of users to use them. And this is not Nielsen's shit, it is simply common sense and good practices.
Or are you going to sell cars only to customers dressed in 60's bluejeans with a hole in the right pocket? Think logically…
sole
20051215
Mac shares increasing from month to month:
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/7773/
humphr3y
20051215
Yes, i know that the park of mac is increasing every month ( creo que esta frase llevo escuchandola años )…
sustituye mi frase de "desarrollo continuo" por "corrección de errores continua" si quieres. Lo que queria decir es que al menos habrá un tio alli preocupado de corregir los bugs de otros, ya se que explorer 6 parado, más que nada, pq andan con explorer 7 (dios nos coja confesados) y para entonces, supongo que ya habrá un firefox 2
Veremos si entonces, la gente cambia al nuevo navegador (me refiero a los que no vayan a usar Vista) o cambian Firefox.
Todo esto se resume en que, por supuesto, no hay que optimizar las páginas para explorer solo, pero es que dudo que la gente lo haga. Simplemente no tiene en cuenta a los demás navegadores, no lo hacen para joder (al menos ya no)
Y lo hacen para explorer, pq es el navegador que viene con el sistema windows, al igual que safari viene con el OS X.
Si el parque de pc's es mayor que el de mac, es totalmente normal que haya páginas que casquen en mac, pq la gente se ha dedicado todos estos años a hacer que las paginas funcionen en su navegador, porque no habia otro.
Ok, una vez dicho esto… me parece fenómeno hacer que una página se vea igual en todos los navegadores, siempre y cuando las neuronas de tu cerebro no acaben por quemarse en optimizaciones estupidas como ocurrio en la epoca ie vs ns.
Se supone que explorer 7 será más compatible con todos los estandars (se supone). Asi que probablemente, cuando salga, haya que tocar bastante codigo de nuevo, y entonces a lo mejor, magicamente, las paginas comienzan a funcionar mejor en safari.
Y por otra parte, y ya lo dije en otro post, odio explorer, pero lo unico que me jode de todo esto es la peña que se ha puesto en plan "instalate el firefox pq rules" poniendo banners escandalosamente bestias (cristallabs) cuando entras con un explorer… lo que hace que automaticamente odies a muerte a la madre que pario al administrador del website.
Firefox es mejor que explorer. Safari es mejor que explorer (y muy bonito), pero si quiero usar explorer (como la gente de linux que usa opera) pq coño me tienen que poner un banner para que cambie de navegador cuando entro en un web, jodiendome la navegacion?… es como lo que explicaste el otro dia de la in-utilidad del website aquel en plan paginas amarillas…
bueno basta.. no está bien escribir más que el dueño de un blog y lo estoy haciendo :D
sole
20051215
It's not about "doing things look the same". It's about enabling things to work, whether you browse with ie, firefox, safari, psp, pda, your mobile phone, lynx, whatever…
It's about using standard elements in an standard way.